Viewing a thread - Regrets buying a large dozer?

Fawazhay

Posted 2/20/ 00:24 (#)
Subject: Regrets buying a large dozer?

HBXG Product Page

Northern CA

We have had some major flood damage and are leaning towards buying a dozer to do the repairs ourselves. I have always wanted, but not really needed, a dozer for around the farm. I seem to see that the D6 Cats are about the same money as a D8. The 7s are somewhere on the lower side of the price range. For this repair, the D8 would really be the preferred machine. It would also be the best for making some rock for later. After that, a 6 would probably be handier. Hauling won't be too much of an issue locally.

I am leaning towards buying the D8. We are farmers and not dirt contractors, so are a little new to this territory. Many people seem to tell me that I will regret the larger iron, but I don't think I will. But, I have always been around larger iron. Thoughts? GM Guy

Posted 2/20/ 00:41 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Regrets buying a large dozer?

NW KS/ SC ID

I think the only issue is can you afford repairs?

A buddy of ours needed to move some dirt. most farmers in our area will go to a consignment sale and spend -10,000 dollars on a dinky little scraper to pull behind a tractor.

He is not like most. :) He got a 855 Cummins powered Michigan paddle wheel scraper on ritchie bros. for a song and had it trucked in for less than 10K for the total project. He does his own repairs though, and is good at sourcing parts, so he doesnt face issues that some do when owning a large piece of equipment.

We need a wheel loader, and for what mid sized loaders are going for, I am eyeing a 945 Fiat Allis. The last two sold in Denver only went for bucks apiece. Kinda hard to justify, but for the price you can buy 2 and part out one to keep the other going.

When is the next Sacramento RB auction? I assume in CA a construction company has to obey emissions laws, so they might be getting rid of some non-compliant equipment that farmers could buy and not be subject to testing?

How did Alturas fare? We have a friend up there. It sounds like you guys are set for the year on water for sure! Fawazhay

Posted 2/20/ 01:35 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Regrets buying a large dozer?

Northern CA

I think Alturas is ok. I heard the river was out, but not lots of damage. I am good friends with a guy there and he hasn't posted on Facebook about problems. I will surely talk to him one day this week as we normally talk.

On the dozer, affording a $30,000 final repair, that would be tough to put more than I am spending on the machine in a corner. I found some decent $15-25k machines. I would probably put 80 hours on it this year spread out over 6 months and then 30 or so each year unless it floods. I need to get more into preventing damage than repairing it. So, if I could get 500 hours without a major breakdown, that's 10 years down the road. The one I am leaning towards has a fairly low time engine. iseedit

Posted 2/20/ 05:21 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Regrets buying a large dozer?

central - east central Minnesota -

central - east central Minnesota -

Fawazhay - 2/20/ 01:35 I think Alturas is ok. I heard the river was out, but not lots of damage. I am good friends with a guy there and he hasn't posted on Facebook about problems. I will surely talk to him one day this week as we normally talk. On the dozer, affording a $30,000 final repair, that would be tough to put more than I am spending on the machine in a corner. I found some decent $15-25k machines. I would probably put 80 hours on it this year spread out over 6 months and then 30 or so each year unless it floods. I need to get more into preventing damage than repairing it. So, if I could get 500 hours without a major breakdown, that's 10 years down the road. The one I am leaning towards has a fairly low time engine.

Only complaints I've heard guys talking about is weight - Takes more tractor/trailer to move it around from farm to farm or down the hwy. Maybe they haven't had to do major repairs ? Don't know the repair costs between a 6,7 or 8 for something like a final drive, rails or sprockets ? I would think those components would be pretty close in cost, if not the same?
I'd suggest calling some of the parts sellers and talk with them as far as component replacements and cost between the machines ? 

Hard to believe a farmer would say "I wish I had a smaller machine"  . . . . ..  it just doesn't happen.

Fawazhay

Posted 2/20/ 05:48 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Regrets buying a large dozer?

Northern CA

Moving around weight won't be an issue. On parts, I think you can rebuild a final drive on a 6 for less than half of an 8. As far as tracks and rails, I will buy one with good enough undercarriage that I won't ever rebuild it. Steer 13

Posted 2/20/ 06:20 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: is renting out of the question?

Have you considered renting a machine? We rent a D6 for a week at a time when it's needed. Pay by the hour or for the week. They handle trucking and repair and you get a new machine.

You could rent for a couple weeks this year to handle your repairs and then as needed for other years.

One issue may be if you need it moved to several locations. Not sure how you would handle that on a rental. Just an idea. WisTreemover

Posted 2/20/ 06:23 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Regrets buying a large dozer?

East Central wisconsin

Many people are unaware at how to appraise actual condition of undercarriage. And that can cost them big money. There's a lot of iron turning and wearing out. But only while it's moving. Lol. And depending on soil Type your working with ( Sandy or abrasive) it can wear it out pretty quickly. VS. Clay type soils. Some of the newer machines have extended life tracks. But guessing these used ones might not. Good luck. Bruised Spud

Posted 2/20/ 06:53 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Regrets buying a large dozer?

Chaffee, Western New York

What soils, debris, distance, and grades are you dealing with?

Scrapers move more, faster, farther than dozers at the cost of dealing with stumps, concrete, bolders and steep grades.

Dozers do poorly with small trees and concrete chunks that a tlb could pick up easily.

farmer82

Posted 2/20/ 06:57 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: is renting out of the question?

S.E. Iowa

I might be the crazy one but I got a D8H yesterday. I talked to alot of people on how to check it out and everything seemed ok. The guy that sold it to me does excavating and fixes machinery on the side. He looked at some trees we wanted to remove and what he would charge to do it with an 8. He is from a distance away but said bucks if he were doing it and a guy with a TD 15 here said over . I might be getting ready for some big bills but when I drop the blade I am wanting to move some dirt. Agree on moving around but I can road it from place to place for me as our farms are close together. gavogel

Posted 2/20/ 07:33 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: is renting out of the question?

Marion,ks

We have a D-8H also cleared a lot trees and farm ground 10years. We do not use it much anymore but it will do a lot of work in a short  time . We bought a good one and have not had many things to fix, nothing major . They are very expensive if something major goes wrong. We also have a JD 644 loader  that gets most of little jobs, but the cat is better for big trees and rocks. We ended up getting a old RGN trailer to move the cat its heavy close to #. The common theme I heard about cats like ours you run them till something major fails and part it out. Cat still has parts for them.

WItitan2

Posted 2/20/ 07:39 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: What d8?

Pierce county WI

I've been looking at d8k dozers. I'd love to step up to the next series, but they get expensive and I would think the engine would be expensive to fix. What are the weights of the h vs the k vs l? I'm hoping if I buy one I can get by with a tri axle trailer, with no pusher on tractor at first. emtbd

Posted 2/20/ 07:47 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: What d8?

west central illinois

west central illinois

WItitan2 - 2/20/ 06:39

I've been looking at d8k dozers. I'd love to step up to the next series, but they get expensive and I would think the engine would be expensive to fix. What are the weights of the h vs the k vs l? I'm hoping if I buy one I can get by with a tri axle trailer, with no pusher on tractor at first.

H and K's are close in weight. 70,000 to 75,000. And as high as 80,000 with a ripper or such. The base operating weight in my book says 70,000

I have never seen one weigh 65,000 like stated above.

Edited by emtbd 2/20/ 07:48

rough and ready

Posted 2/20/ 07:57 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Regrets buying a large dozer?

Fawazhay first question how much do you need to move and How far A lot do not realize this but a dozer it efficient in a 300 foot area anything over that its cheaper to haul is do you have any timber the 8 is a monster in timber a 10 inch tree will stop a 6 a8 will back over it as for moving dirt a good 8 will out perform 3 6s as for moving a 8 here a 3 axil with a good Mack in front get the job done 8+ lb ------6------lb if you have a lot of dirt to move a long way buy a 10-12 yard dirt pan and a 6 shot distance get a 8k with a u blade that thing would be alyssum we have do it all he I owened 6s 7s and 8s 10-12 14 yard dirt pans also a verity of dump trucks did precision leveling for a living for 20 years -------------------------------------------------dave Neb. Nick

Posted 2/20/ 08:06 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Regrets buying a large dozer?

east central NE.

Had a d7H which was a good machine, did a lot of work with it but wanted somehing bigger. Sold the 7 and bought a D8 R with a U blade and ripper. I think the 8 will do over 1 1/2 times what the 7 would. It been a real good machine and just seem to work so much nicer. The ripper is a real bonus, not only for ripping, but when you get stuck I can pick the whole machine up and shove dirt under the tracks with a skid loader or what ever you have available at the time. I Have even got out just using the ripper and tipping the shanks . If you do not think you will get stuck with a cat ,you have not run one yet. The only disadvantage with the d8 is moving it. I am right at lbs. WItitan2

Posted 2/20/ 08:10 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: What d8?

Pierce county WI

Thanks. An l must be heavier yet? I don't know if I'll be able to get by without a pusher. I'll need an annual permit. I want it to help pull tiling when conditions get bad, and to do a little waterway work and land clearing. It looks like you can get a pretty good k for the money vs getting an l or an n. Plus I figured that old 6 cylinder would run a long time. jimgen

Posted 2/20/ 08:20 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: What d8?

central mich

We have always had a D8 starting with 2U series.

Currently we have a 46A which is the highest serial H that I have seen although they did make some higher serial

number H before the K.

We rebuilt the transmission in the H with aftermarket parts which cost about $8,000 plus something like $2,000 to a
friend who has done many of the Cat trans.
We have rebuilt the steering clutches and both final drives. Plus we have had the wishbones off and did a lot of rebuilding on the track frames. We did all the work ourselves except our 100 ton puller would not pull the hubs as they had been pressed on too tight. Hired Cat to to pull them and they came off with about 130 tons of pull. Hired Cat to push on at proper specs.
We had a small fire pushing around brush piles last fall and it drained the water with out notice and now we have to pull the head and replace head gasket and prob some heads.
We are looking at a K and prob will buy it and sell the H at some point.
The K is a little nicer tractor to own I would say.
We have Fleco clearing rake on the tractor. semosandfarmer

Posted 2/20/ 08:25 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Regrets buying a large dozer?

East Prairie, MO

East Prairie, MO

I've only had 2 smaller dozer's, First a D4H and then an E Case. Every time I ran one of them I was wishing it was bigger, faster and stronger...get the big one

twraska

Posted 2/20/ 08:26 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Regrets buying a large dozer?

Wallis, TX

My thoughts,

There are a lot of differences as you get newer in a series.  I.e. a 6d is less than 40K and somewhere around 140hp.  My 6R series II LGP with cab, air, sweeps and treeknocker is 50K and 200 hp.  Which is the same as a 7G in 'normal' gear.

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Once you get over a 40-45K machine you will need a 3 axle trailer and permit to be legal.  May or may not matter in your area.  IMHO this is the single reason the 6 is more expensive than a 7 or 8.

Type of blade, an SU (semi-U) will, in most conditions, push more dirt than a straight blade.  But, it's taller and harder to see over.  Angle blade is nice in some instances but it farther out front, heavier up front, wider and you really don't want to take it to a tree fight.  6 way power blade is cat's meow for loose dirt but you sure don't want to put it working in trees, they have a nasty habit of breaking up after a while.  (I know some do it but you will have more costs in running it.)  And if your ground is hard, the wider the blade the harder it is to get it to cut.  May need a ripper if the ground is really nasty.

LGP will stay up on top a lot better if it's soft but the tracks are a little more expensive to maintain and you don't want it in rocks.  A good compromise is an XL if you're going to the high track machines.  On the older ones not so much choice.

Weight, if you're looking at an 8, better check around and make sure your ground can hold an 8 up when you need to be working.  They are heavy and will 'pump' the ground, eventually making it like jello.  May not be a problem for you but here it can be.

Repairs, I just had a final done on my 6R, it was a little over $12K.  This was Cat doing the work with Cat Classic parts.  A tranny for mine is in the 20-25K range.  Tracks are not cheap, get someone that really knows what he's doing to look them over and see how much remaining life they have.

Oh yea, the newer ones with either diff steer or FTC (finger tip controls) are much nicer/easier to run but they do tend to have some electrical/hydraulic issues.  Just like the newer farm tractors vs a 70's model tractor.  Not really an issue.  It's just you normally can't fix the switch when it goes out, but can put a pin back in a linkage if the cotter key breaks.

cainfarmer

Posted 2/20/ 08:30 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Regrets buying a large dozer?

SE Nebraska

SE Nebraska

I have run several different sized dozers over the last 27 years. Bigger is always better. Hauling is more of an issue though.

jd

Posted 2/20/ 08:44 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Regrets buying a large dozer?

Roseglen, North Dakota

+1 D6Joe

Posted 2/20/ 09:02 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Regrets buying a large dozer?

east central ND

Only 2 things with a big dozer are bigger repair bills and how much more work it is getting it unstuck. Oh yeah, parts get very heavy on bigger machines. My mid 50's d6 (26,000 lbs) can be dragged out with my trac hoe with ease, my mid 50's 14a D8 takes some planning, and it is only about 55,000 lbs. If my little D6 was in better shape (needs a clutch and other things in that area), I would use it more for cleaning up after the trac hoe. But the 8 is in much better shape, and takes 1/3 of the time to do the job. I am not a great operator, but do have a pull box blade for behind the tractor to do final smoothing. rough and ready

Posted 2/20/ 09:22 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Regrets buying a large dozer?

3 axial drop Mack truck 8k with ripper 109 000 lb do" ask me how I know------------------------dave westernillinoisfarm

Posted 2/20/ 10:19 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Regrets buying a large dozer?

I would not buy a cat as they are very expensive to fix compared to a Komatsu or dresser. I would recommend at Dresser TD20E or a 25E. Very solid dozers and are much cheaper to maintain. Komatsu D65ex would also be a very good choice. We have put many hours on all three brands of dozer listed but know nothing of deer or case Ben D, N CA

Posted 2/20/ 10:20 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Regrets buying a large dozer?

Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot

Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot

Alturas is fine. I've been down there half a dozen times since a few weeks ago, and there was some localized flooding but nothing serious. The river was up at Canby, but all that does is flood the pastures there by town. Think most are just glad to see the water. Shame it blew out all at once, and there isn't much for storage up here. The flooding was actually worse east of Alturas, and out onto the desert.

Still, snow pack in the mountains is pretty good. It's well saturated too at this point. Just need some good cold weather to turn it into an ice cube.

Looks like you guys had it pretty rough Brandon. One of my drivers sent me a picture of the river, I think it was around the airport. Looked about a mile wide, and that is about how wide he said it was. Barns get flooded or what sort of damage are you looking at? Ben D, N CA

Posted 2/20/ 10:33 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Regrets buying a large dozer?

Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot

Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot

I'm guessing I know how you plan on moving it around once you get it over there, so that isn't an issue. The only time they are too big is when you stick them and when you move them. Most have either a ripper (really handy, that is what I'd want) or a winch on them, which solves the stuck issues most of the time. You've got enough other equipment around you'll be able to get it out should you stick it. With a ripper usually you can stand it up high enough to fill in under the tracks. The moving isn't an issue, so go with the bigger one.

I ran a 7 the most, during my brief stint working in the woods. Later on I ran an 8 on a dirt job. It wasn't a side by side comparison, but the 8 is twice the machine, twice as capable as a 7. The only reason 6's and 7's are more popular is they are easier to move. More demand, so they cost as much as a D8 as well. The only thing is parts and shop time if they break. Get someone who knows what they are looking at to look it over before you buy it. Can't stress that enough. I was around them for years and wouldn't know exactly what to look for, how to gauge, etc. Sledge

Posted 2/20/ 10:37 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Regrets buying a large dozer?

Extreme SW Minnesota Iowa border

Been running dozers off and on for 30+ years. If you get a good one, I think and D8 H would be fine for you. Find someone you trust, and knows dozers really well, help you pick a good one.
The most fun I ever had running a dozer was a late D8H, that had just been completely rebuilt. The guys I was working with said I kept smiling all day when I was on it. littlejoe

Posted 2/20/ 11:22 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Regrets buying a large dozer?

Big Sky Country

d8 would be good, d9 better.

cats---the longer they are, the more whack they got, the heavier they are---the better---and easier--and it'll amaze you how good a buy 8's and 9's can be ILCORNGROWER

Posted 2/20/ 12:14 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Regrets buying a large dozer?

Northern Illinois

I think the big question is how much dirt do you plan to move? We had a D8H for a while dad was running a dump site near Chicago and all it did was push truck dirt all day. Worked great for the job and was cheap iron. The problem is moving it around a lot gets costly if you do it the legal way. Now we have 2 750C Deere and a 650H. If you aren't moving mountains a 750 or 850 Deere Hydro will move a lot of dirt because they are fast. I know Cat guys will tell you how much better a power shift is in a big dozer for longevity but if you get some oil samples on a Deere hydro and its been taken care of they are a great machine.

Seriously though the big question is how much dirt you're moving and how often the machine will be moved around. If I am hogging dirt in one spot yea I want a D9. If I'm shaping waterways in different sections or townships every other day I want something I can move without spending $3-500 on a permit.

I know most farmers just move stuff without permits but the second I pulled out on the highway with a lowboy truck that says Excavating Contractor on the door I'm getting stopped....

Big yellow iron does get costly when it goes down. The two main reasons smaller dozers bring more money than 7-8-9 size Cats is mobility and cost to fix. ruralneighbor

Posted 2/20/ 12:50 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Regrets buying a large dozer?

Central ohio

We have a D6 that weighs 18 ton. I think if I had it to do over I would rather have a track hoe that size. ruralneighbor

Posted 2/20/ 12:55 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Regrets buying a large dozer?

Central ohio

We have a D6 that weighs 18 ton. I think if I had it to do over I would rather have a track hoe that size. Kelly

Posted 2/20/ 12:58 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Regrets buying a large dozer?

NC KS

Everybody mentioned the weight of the 8s but the width becomes a big factor. Some of them are 16 wide so takes wide roads and pilot cars to move legally. emtbd

Posted 2/20/ 15:38 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Regrets buying a large dozer?

west central illinois

west central illinois

Kelly - 2/20/ 11:58

Everybody mentioned the weight of the 8s but the width becomes a big factor. Some of them are 16 wide so takes wide roads and pilot cars to move legally.

ive never seen an 8 16' wide either. If one is that wide it would have to be broken down. It's a divisible load. Pilot cars for that would be expensive and silly as easy as the blade can be taken off. We did it all the time with the 8 and 9 L's

Edited by emtbd 2/20/ 15:40

Paul in WA

Posted 2/20/ 19:44 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Regrets buying a large dozer?

SE Washington

SE Washington

The d8h's and d8k's my coworker that runs the heavy truck at work has moved have been around 14 wide. Only need pilots on two lane roads, interstate is fine. Depending on how the dozer is optioned, 7 or 8 axles are required. A K with a decent ripper we put the booster on and take 8 axles here. They aren't hard to move at all, just require a small amount of planning. nekfarmer

Posted 2/20/ 20:42 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Regrets buying a large dozer?

NE KS

Down side to a D8 is telling people what you charge an hour and a normal person wouldn't know that an 8R will push twice the dirt and hour that an 6R will so they opt for the cheaper rate. Moving can be hard but a triple axle trailer will get it done. If your a farmer in KS you are exempt from weight, height, and width restrictions as long as your not on the interstate. This came directly from the KS HP. A D8R has a 13' blade which seems plenty wide when pulling it down a narrow 2 lane hwy. Fawazhay

Posted 2/21/ 00:20 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Regrets buying a large dozer?

Northern CA

Thanks for all the advice. I looked at a Komatsu D85-12 today that I liked but they guy isn't quite ready to sell. We will see what develops. I liked the machine. There is a nice D8H locally but one has a straight blade and I think I want a U or Semi U. twraska

Posted 2/21/ 08:31 (# - in reply to #)
Subject: RE: Regrets buying a large dozer?

Wallis, TX

If the blade is the only issue, you may look at machinery trader and the other 'yellow iron classifieds' as they normally have blades, rakes etc for sale.

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